Bill's Notes

[Industrialblog, February 9, 2007]
Overton Window, Contempt and the Marcotte Affair
OK, I'll weigh in. Jane Galt has a discussion here, which some commenters and I think misses the point. The issue is not the target of Amanda Marcotte's ire. She can make fun of Catholicism and Catholics all she wants. It doesn't offend me — after all, if I'm truly faithful, I know that one day she'll come into the presence of God's great love and mercy and realize the full nature of her blasphemy. Just like I will when I face God.

She can also insult pro-lifers all she wants. I no longer argue with pro-choicers — pro-choicers don't have to explain it to me, they'll have to explain it to them. Just like I'll have a lot of explaining to do on a wide range of issues.

And the issue really isn't First Amendment or censorship. She can write what she wants, and no one wants to stop them. But if she is full of contempt for those who disagree — and she is — and is not just gratuiously insulting (which is all right by me) but full of seething hatred, bigotry and paranoia, well, then you're talking about someone who is not fit yet to come into the company of civil individuals and is outside the Overton Window.

Edwards tried to "manage" the situation. Essentially, he tried to clean them up a bit so they may enter into mainstream politics — Marcotte and McEwan had to disavow they meant anything insulting, Edwards said he'd take them at their word, and voila! — they know that to speak in a mainstream forum, they can't speak that way.

Whether they've learned something by this or have merely sold out their deepest beliefs for power is known only by God and in their own hearts. Whether they'll self-destruct, who knows?
Harry at work (mail) (www):
Interesting skew here. The issue is really the statements being made by Catholic League President William Donohue, who says of Marcotte and McEwan that Edwards "has no choice but to fire them immediately." According to CNN,

The Catholic League president called the language "incendiary" and "inflammatory." "It's scurrilous and has no place being part of someone's resume who's going to work for a potential presidential contender," he said.

This is a Free Speech issue. William Donohue and his "Catholic League" (which does not in any way represent the views of all Catholics) do want to stop these people from writing what they want. And I believe you stated your view of this quite clearly last February 3:
"If they can't live with free speech, they need to get the fuck out of our country. Pretty simple."
2.9.2007 9:44am
Bill (mail) (www):
Look at your own quote. He says if you talk that way, you shouldn't be qualified to work for a potential presidential contender. Nothing about silencing her on her blog. (If he is, that's a different story.) But it is about holding someone accountable who tries to enter decent society.

As Mark Shea puts it, "If this had involved Jews, African-Americans, or gays Mandy and Co. would be so far down the memory hole you couldn't see them. But since this is about the last acceptable American prejudice, the Evil Party types give it a pass. Utterly disgusting."

And btw, sometimes I suspect you think everything I write is skewed :)

As my professor Toby Olson said in his poen"AESTHETICS- 1


*Paint what you see*
is already a philosophical problem:


"
2.9.2007 12:53pm
Francis W. Porretto (www):
Harry appears to have gone off the deep end. Stop Marcotte and McEwan from writing? Not at all -- but no Democrat who allows such persons to associate with him has a Chinaman's chance of attaining the White House. So anyone who wants to see a Democrat in the White House in 2009 is likely to get strident about Edwards's choices of bloggers.

Bill Donohue is, if memory serves, a Democrat. He is not a public official, has never run for public office, and has not one shred of police power. He cannot silence anyone, but he can surely give his opinion about what Edwards must do to retain the interest of Catholic voters.

I suggest that it's Harry who has the problem with freedom of speech -- Bill Donohue's freedom of speech, that is.
2.9.2007 12:54pm
Harry (mail) (www):
Donohue has the right to spout any blather he chooses. But he does not have the right to claim to represent the views of all Catholics, or anyone's views beyond his own and his group's membership.

Nor does he have the right to dictate who may participate in the campaign of a potential Presidential candidate. By Donohue's criteria, John Edwards would have "no choice but to fire" any blogger (or commentor, or letter-to-the-editor writer) whose rhetorhic has risen to the level he has defined. That means you, Bill. Me. Chris. Pretty much almost every blogger I can think of, with the possible exception of SuperG. ("Chinaman's chance", Mr. Porretto? Oh, dear. Welcome the list.) Everybody on Michelle Malkin's list of heroes from last year's Mohammed cartoons flap, too - unless you can somehow explain how posting those cartoons was not "incendiary" or "inflammatory". Including Michelle Malkin herself.

(And, by the way, Bill - have you read Malkin's criticism of one of the bloggers for allegedly deleting, or "whitewashing", or, as you call it, "redacting" some of the objectionable posts? Of course, when this later turned out to be untrue, rather than admit her error Malkin remarked that this was even worse, since this vile stuff would be allowed to remain online.)
2.9.2007 8:51pm
Chris (mail) (www):
Harry,

How could she remark that not redacting the posts was even worse than redacting them without acknowledging that they were not, in fact, redacted?

But of course none of us is political material. Does that really surprise you?
2.11.2007 10:57am
Bill (mail) (www):
Chris: While I agree that I'm not political material, I'm not willing to concede that any of us has written anything close to the contempt and hatred that Marcotte has shown. However, I will concede my rhetoric has occasionally been over-the-top over the years.

Harry: I have not criticized Marcotte for removing posts. In fact, she showed poor judgment by not deleting many of the posts before serving in the Edwards campaign. Online blogs are the property of the owner -- period -- to do whatever he/she wants, for whatever reason or for no reason. It is the "at will" employment of journalism.

While blogs are in fact an online record of someone's thoughts, they are not "abstractly" some kind of permanent testimony that must never be touched lest someone be accused of cover-up and perjury. If someone wants to change past posts to more accurately reflect their current opinions, particularly before accepting a different job, I have no problem with that. I expect people to develop, learn and grow. Particularly young people.

There are other elements of this when it comes to being a professional writer, particularly involving protecting your byline and not embarrassing your employer, that I'll only mention in passign.
2.12.2007 9:07am
Chris (mail) (www):
Bill,

I've probably been as disrespectful towards materialism as Marcotte has been towards Christianity. Though on the other hand, I've always understood it better.

The thing that really strikes me about Marcotte is not how disrespectful she is. When you get down to it, there's only so respectful an atheist can be towards a Christian, and vice versa. After all, we do both believe each other to be catastrophically wrong about the most important things in the universe.

The thing which strikes me about Marcotte is how badly she understands Christianity.
2.13.2007 11:14am
TWS (mail) (www):
My thing was they were so hateful. There wasn't even an argument in the rants, it was just abuse. (Hey, that sounds like a Monty Python bit.) And barely made sense. Oh, right, they ARE on the left...
2.15.2007 12:41pm
Bill (mail) (www):
Yeah, TWS, Marcotte likes to abuse strawmen. Overall, she seems pretty ignorant.
2.16.2007 1:43pm

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